Clutch Hits - Race and Violence (December 18, 2003)
A great article and thread.
If you want to continue this discussion, please do it here at Primate Studies, rather than having it lost in the Clutch hits abyss.
--posted by TangoTiger at 08:08 PM EDT
Posted 12:13 p.m.,
December 19, 2003
(#1) -
Guy
I think the most interesting aspect of this is the "QB issue" rather than the HBP stuff -- is there still discrimination at work in baseball, and if so, what form(s) does it take? A few years ago, I remember reading that black MLB players -- both pitchers and hitters, but especially pitchers -- performed appreciably better than white players across most or all statistical categories (not sure about Hispanics). This invariably leads to a debate on causation -- is this a genetic difference, social/opportunity difference, or combination -- that is certainly interesting (if often contentious). But the other implication gets much less attention: if black players are performing at a higher average level than whites, then unless the distribution of talent is vastly different in the two populations, this means that even today many blacks are being kept off rosters (and/or denied playing time) in favor of less talented white players.
In other words, if blacks are, for whatever reason, more likely than whites to be MLB-caliber baseball players, then they should be overrepresented in MLB compared to the total population (as they are). But that shouldn't mean that within MLB black players are any better than white players --both groups should include a range of talent from replacement-level to superstar. If black mean performance is appreciably better, then there must be a lot of "missing" black players of below-league-average ability. I suppose one could argue that these black athletes are choosing the NFL or NBA over MLB -- that black athletes only choose to pursue baseball is they are very, very good -- but I can't imagine there are enough jobs in those leagues to begin to provide the explanation.
Does anyone know if the performance of black players continues to exceed that of white players?
Posted 12:26 p.m.,
December 19, 2003
(#2) -
tangotiger
I agree. The performance of blacks, white, latins, lefties, righties, fatsos, skinsos, and anything you can think of that has a large enough population to draw from should be pretty much even, otherwise they're not being properly selected.
In hockey, the European players are under-represented because when it comes to the 3rd and 4th line players, it's more cost-effective, and easier language-wise, to deal with a North American. When you look at 1st round picks, or you look at the "50 best players in the NHL", invariably, over 50% of the players are non-North Americans.
However, the % of all players is, I think, about 60% are North Americans. In fact, even though the NHL has expanded from 17 to 30 teams over the last 25 years, the number of North Americans has remained stagnant at 400 players. If the NHL continues to expand say to 40 teams, a great majority of the extra players will almost certainly come from Europe.
Posted 3:01 p.m.,
December 19, 2003
(#3) -
PhillyBooster
I am not convinced that Black Pitcher (or Hispanic Pitcher) is necessarily an important category. I do not believe that pitchers are, overall, more highly paid, or more likely to be considered "intelligent" (certainly some are, but the Wild Thing image is just as common.) It's like saying black players are disproportionately at second base instead of shortstop. Maybe, but so what?
The numbers I would like to see are Minority Catchers. The Catcher is the Game Caller (perhaps a better QB analogy). Catchers are also more likely to be considered intelligent, and are disproportionately made managers.
Posted 1:28 a.m.,
December 23, 2003
(#4) -
Virgil, now the Voice of Uncertainty in this Issue
I think like one reader brought up in the original Clutch Hits thread, a lot of it has to do with socioeconomic reasons.
This analogy will turn out to be a vast generalization, is the easy way out, and I'm no sociologist, but here goes:
To become a good pitcher, you need good instruction. Pitching mechanics are not as well known as hitting mechanics - you can watch a good player take a swing at a ball on TV and mimic it easily. But mimicking more than a pitcher's unorthodox windup is more complex. Players are natural hitters more than natural pitchers - and to be durable in the major leagues you have to have fair mechanics. Good instruction tends to entail spending of money. A lot of United States minorities can't afford this specialized instruction or this instruction isn't as readily available to them as it is in the baseball-crazed Dominican Republic.
Also, in sandlot or high school ball, the most athletic players always play SS, 2B, CF. The same goes for the major leagues - blacks and hispanics tend to be faster and more athletic, and more are brought up as pitchers.
And yes, I'd be a lot more interested in minority catchers. Although... that gear costs a lot of money...